Full Transcription 

SPEAKERS 

Jay Papasan, James Laughlin 

 

James Laughlin 00:00 

Welcome to lead on purpose. I'm James Laughlin, former seven-time world champion musician, and now an executive coach to global leaders and high performers. In every episode, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today on investing in yourself. Enjoy the show. 

 

James Laughlin 00:39 

You are in for an absolute treat today. I'm so excited to welcome this week's guest, Jay Papasan. Jay is a best-selling author and his books have collectively sold over three and a half million copies. He's also the Vice President of Keller Williams Realty, the world's largest real estate company. We go deep today we talk about the book, The One Thing. If you're a leader, you're going to love it.  

 

James Laughlin 

Jay, a massive Welcome to The Lead on Purpose Podcast. 

 

Jay Papasan 01:24 

I'm so happy to be here. It's so fun. Like how amazing that we can really connect from different sides of the globe now. I mean, just reflect on that for a second. 

 

James Laughlin 01:33 

Yeah, well, 15 years ago, you and I would not be doing this. 

 

Jay Papasan 01:37 

No, no. Or if we did, it would be really, really rough. So, I love it.  

 

James Laughlin 01:42 

Dial-up. Now look, Jay, I just want to I want to kick things back a little bit, I'd love to know where your appetite for success began. 

 

Jay Papasan 01:56 

You know, there's, there's a few formative moments. Man, I think of my life and kind of broadly two chapters before my wife and my current partner and after. Right about the time I met my wife, I trained for a marathon. And I think up until that point, everything I did was goals that I could really wait to the last minute to prepare for. But my roommate had talked me into signing up for the New York Marathon in an effort to try to get me to stop smoking. And I was kind of a not a horrible smoker. But I picked up some bad habits when I lived in Paris. And you know, like a pack a week, you know, not exactly social, but still not to make clothes stink. And you know marathons are just not something you can wake up the week before and do at least that I'm not that kind of human being. But it was really instructive for me that each week, I would just add a couple of miles to the final run. And about halfway through the process, I was getting ready for a date with my wife, who I just met. And my roommate wanted to celebrate the fact that I just run a little over 14 and a half miles. And for me, I was just like, not even halfway done with the training program. I was like it was just a Saturday run and it goes, Jay, that was a half marathon. And that that's the moment not even crossing the finish line, which I did. But I just remember thinking, Oh, wow. Like when you just kind of chip away at something and add to it and add to it and add to it. It's amazing how fast it added up. That really took my breath away. And I think after that I started approaching big success differently. And within, you know, a year of that I was engaged to be married to my wife and she's pushed me hard. And then a couple of years later, I was working with Gary Keller, who's a self-made billionaire. And to stay in his inner circle requires a certain trajectory of growth. And I love that I like pushing myself, I like stretching myself. And I like doing it kind of the marathon way. I like can I just do a little bit more this week. It's not ever having to be a sprint, right? That leaves you I am breathless some days. But like in general, you know what I'm saying? It's just that steady progression. And then every now and then looking up and going, oh, wow, look where we how far we've gotten. So anyway, I'm not sure if that made sense or not. But I kind of look at around age 30-31, a lot changed in my life. A couple of really important relationships entered into it, my wife and my partner, and also just started thinking very differently about how to approach success. 

 

James Laughlin 04:35 

I'm so glad you said that because I do feel that people who are chasing success whether they're already leaders or not. They look at it as this sacrifice every day. There's got to be a massive sacrifice. I've got to put in 16 hours a day and I've got to do it this week. I've got to achieve the million-dollar mark by the end of Friday. I love your approach of you knowing where you're headed, but you're just chipping away one bite at a time. 

 

Jay Papasan 05:02 

Well, I kind of look at busy people really, really busy people with a certain amount of suspicion. As a longtime manager, I know that being busy can sometimes be a place to hide. Right? I'm not actually being productive. I'm just being really active, right? Productive, as we talked about in the book, the one thing, it's acting on your priorities, and people who just race after everything and kind of pride themselves on their hustle. You know, we all get the same number of hours. There are people, you can point to Elon Musk. I mean, I get to point to Gary Keller that I work with, like, figured out his dollars per hour, right? If he works fewer hours than I do, I feel like I'm a hard worker. But I still, I'm sitting at the dinner table with my kids, my phones put away, right, I don't miss those moments. You know, I worked maybe 50-55 hours a week, you know, I don't want to just clock 40 I love my job. But I'm also I'm not priding myself on Saturdays and Sundays and late nights. So, I just think it's a different approach. Let's make sure that we're being really impactful. Let's not hide in a bunch of tasks, let's figure out and declare, what really matters. And most people don't want to do that. They don't want to say they're all in on a marathon or a project that in their professional life or their personal life equates to that. Because if they fail, what does that say about them? But if they're juggling 50 balls, and look, I only dropped two, it doesn't matter that most of them don't mean anything. So, I just think that a lot of people have gotten way too caught up in the hustle economy. And I think hustle leads to a lot of regrets, a lot of missed time and relationships, a lot of missed time and personal development, a lot of missed time and doing things that are more impactful than being able to say you crossed a lot of stuff off of your list. So, you stepped right into maybe or I stepped us into kind of a soapbox issue for me busyness versus being truly productive. I like hard work, I enjoy work. But I think that work for work's sake is kind of foolish. 

 

James Laughlin 07:11 

Yeah, I kind of hear from what you're saying there that don't mistake activity for productivity 

 

Jay Papasan 07:16 

Yes. Like, that's the core message. 

 

James Laughlin 07:19 

Right. That's amazing. Like, for so many of us who are running businesses are leading teams or families, it is so easy to get into the habit of let's just keep as you say, keep the balls in the air and let's add a few more because it makes us feel like we're being productive. But actually, we are really diluting our focus. So, for the person who wants to try and figure out what to go all-in on to essentially figure out their priorities. How does someone go about figuring out their priorities? 

 

Jay Papasan 07:49 

So, kind of in the middle of the book, the one thing that, you know, it's kind of I guess, while we're both here, it's a book I co-authored with Gary, we have a thing called the focusing question. And it's very specific verbiage. What's the one thing I can do such that by doing it, everything else will be easier or unnecessary? And honestly, we could have started the book there. But I think people wouldn't have bought into it without a little bit more preamble because we had to earn a little trust to go to something that's simple. But the reality is when people stop and ask a question like that, most people actually know what their priorities are. They're just so busy. They're not addressing them. And I actually remember when we were writing this book, we spent four and a half years working on it. I was like, well, what if people don't have their one thing? What if people don't know their one thing, Gary? And he's been a coach for so many years. Before that. He goes, trust me, almost all of them will address some techniques for people to figure it out. But they're an extreme minority. And that was reality. I've probably worked with all kinds of corporate groups and training groups and coaching groups, maybe call it 10,000 plus or minus 1000. People. And I'm going to say 1-2% truly honestly don't know what their one thing is. And that could be I'm not talking about on the cosmic level, there are plenty of us who haven't figured that out. But I'm talking about professionally, or in their marriage, or in a relationship, you ask that question, what's my one thing to be a great rugby player? What's my one thing to be a great coder to be a great husband to be great in my business or a leader? Most people, just haven't stopped to ask or remind themselves and they feel guilty the moment they do. And that was actually a pleasant aha for me. Because that just meant that what we need is to be a little bit more thoughtful in our approach just a little bit of time to ask what is my true priority? And I find that when people are clear about their priority, they have a lot less trouble saying no to other stuff. So anyway, we can unpack that. That's a whole other conversation. But the heart of it is just asking, you know, we have a long question and you can put it in the show notes, but It's basically what's fundamentally my number one priority. And what's the biggest opportunity I have towards that? 

 

James Laughlin 10:08 

Definitely put it in the show notes. I've actually got it on a quote card up on my wall here to remind me every single day, 

 

Jay Papasan 10:15 

If people are watching a video, that's one of the reasons we just put this big question mark on the back of the book. I don't know if it's in the edition that you have in New Zealand, 

 

James Laughlin 10:23 

I don't know if it's here at the desk. It might be me by my bedside table, but it's a yellow version I've got 

 

Jay Papasan 10:29 

If it has a question mark on the back, that was our US edition that we have control over. We were like, should we put testimonials, we've written all these other best sellers. And it's like, we wanted one thing. If there was one habit, someone set aside from that book and said, Okay, what, what next? What do I do as a result of reading this? We hope that they would build the habit of asking the question, What's my one thing? What's my one thing today, this moment, this week, this month, this year? Ultimately, on the big scale, and that leads to you, you know, this idea of purpose, which is a part of your podcast, is the ultimate driver. But that's also maybe a bigger question for people to bite off. 

 

James Laughlin 11:11 

And for people that are going, okay, I'm going to find out my one thing, often, the scary part for them is, do I have to commit to that one thing for life? So, can the one thing evolve as you evolve? 

 

Jay Papasan 11:24 

Yeah, I, when I teach people kind of to write a purpose statement or identify their core values, we kind of talked about datum for a while, like go through a long engagement. And what will happen is you tend to get clarity as you, you know, it's like a compass, a compass should tell you, where you should be going, based on these values, this core purpose that I believe that I meant to kind of fulfill to help people or to bring value for me a lot of it's that impact, that should be a compass for me. So go out in the world, date it for a while, and see if it's actually leading in a direction, that gives you more fulfillment. And especially the younger someone is, the more likely that is to evolve. So, like, don't rush out and get a tattoo the moment you write it down. But put it like I keep mine on my goal sheet that I look at every day, it's the bookmark for my journal, that I do a physical one. So, every time I opened it up, to write down a note, I'm confronted not just with my goals, but with my values and my purpose. And it's changed, I was actually just telling a friend, back in 2015, I finally kind of articulated my core values, in addition to, you know, my kind of purpose statement, and I had family impact and abundance. So, the three things like if I was going to say yes to something, I wanted it to be a 9 out of 10 on all three of those, right? And that was a tough score to find, right? You look up and it's like, wow, I can make an impact. This creates a lot of abundance for me and others, but man, I'm going to miss seeing my family, I'm going to it's going to pull me away. And what I'm realizing and maybe it's because I'm within a year or two of being an empty nester that really impacts the one in the middle is the thing that matters most, I make more decisions based on impact than anything else, if I'm being truly honest. 

 

James Laughlin 13:21 

How do you measure impact? Because for some people who also share that value of impact on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, how do you evaluate how much impact you're having on the world around you? 

 

Jay Papasan 13:31 

I definitely am one of those geeks that like to track things and I've got my, you know, my ring that monitors my sleep, I can nerd out like this is not one of those things. I just asked the question of all the things that I could choose from today. Like I realized that I'm ultimately making a decision between the heart decides, like, is that my one thing? Or is that my one thing based on impact, but like, tell me like, one of the most important classes I ever attended. It was back in 2001, I was going to a corporate training here at Keller Williams, and our then CEO, Mo Anderson was going to be the teacher. We're going to learn how to read a balance sheet. Okay, so boring. I had no idea what a balance sheet was that was just the topic at 8 am on a Wednesday, and she walked in and I was the only employee that had not taken that course that was required to be there. Most CEOs would have said, well, let's just schedule this for a time when there are more people here. And she said, well, it looks like it's just me and you instead of a class, we're going to have a one-on-one coaching session. And the byproduct of that is I learned for the first time in my life what net worth was, right? A balance sheet for a business's assets and liabilities net worth sheet for an individual is assets and liabilities and I was like whoa, I've been measuring the wrong thing. So, I could say Do I have a chance to write a book that I reach millions? Or have a chance to go to coffee with someone and really pour into them? Like, how do you judge? Right? Maybe that conversation Mo had with me, my wife and I had been tracking, we must set a goal to make 100 millionaires. And I think we've got 27 that have circled back around and said, thanks in part to what they learned from us, they can now say their net worth millionaire. And so like, well, well done, Mo, like that hour she spent with me is really part of the genesis of that idea. So, I kind of go with my gut, I think it's a little bit I can look backward and say, I've made that choice. Did I make the right choice? And I can look forward and said, based on what I know, for the last few years, I've really tried to focus on this, I'm starting to feel where I can make the most impact, just because I'm paying attention. I wish I could tell you some KPIs. But I just look at the things that I'm good at, the things that I love doing, and areas where I have a chance to make some sort of first and second-order impact. 

 

James Laughlin 16:11 

Beautiful, it's kind of similar to the Japanese philosophy of Ikigai. The sweet spot. 

 

Jay Papasan 16:18 

Actually, just read a book. Here we go. I'll hold it up for you turning the back on the camera. But I read this for that very reason. And it ended up being a book about longevity. But I still like the little graphic on the back kind of is like what you love what the world needs, right? Like, it gives you some good tools for trying to identify how you make a big impact. But I love that concept and its pure form. 

 

James Laughlin 16:43 

It's very simple. Yeah, if anybody's listening, please go to Google and type in that Ikigai. 

 

Jay Papasan 16:52 

Perfect while looking at the cover, yes. 

 

James Laughlin 16:54 

And there are four questions. If you answer those four questions, they'll give you direction for sure. 

 

Jay Papasan 17:00 

What you love, what you're good at what the world needs, and what you can get paid for, if it matters that you get paid. What are the questions in this book? 

 

James Laughlin 17:08 

I love it. Now, for somebody out there who wants to be, I call them B.I.F. Best in Field. If they want to be the world's best, so arguably Keller Williams, the world's largest real estate company, right? That 

 

Jay Papasan 17:20 

By agent counts, but we're the largest by Agent count with a single brand. And under that measure, we'd sell the most homes and have the most volume of a home sold. And that's like the total price value. So, we call that the Triple Crown, though I'm sure some of our competitors would say that we tended to measure this right? 

 

James Laughlin 17:38 

Of course. But arguably, you're the best infield. So, for somebody out there, whether they're running a small company, medium company, a sports team, or a family, for them to be the best in the field, what is the process that you would recommend they go through? What are the questions they might ask? Or is there a framework, you know what this is what you've got to be thinking about to become world-class. 

 

Jay Papasan 17:59 

So, I think that there is a framework, it's called benchmarking and trending. And we'll go into that. I think if it's someone I really care about, which is hopefully who I'm talking to. The first question I'm going to ask is, what will world-class do for you? Why is that important to you? What will happen if you fail? A lot of times you ask that first question, why is it important to you? They go to the gold medal, that moment on the podium, the pride, a lot of the positives. And the key question is actually the second one. What will happen if you fail? If it's, you know, my father always wanted this for me, or my son can't go to Juilliard and fulfill his dreams. If there's nothing deeper attached to the cost of losing, most people will really struggle to do what it takes to be truly the best at something that usually happens over a long time. And to say yes, to something of that magnitude, there are a lot of no's. There are so many no's. And people have to have a deep sense of commitment. So, in my first exploration and I use those two questions, you might have a better technique. But I asked why is this important? And, and what would it look like if you fail? And I want to look at having them experience both. And then read on that, because if it's just aspirational, we'll then talk about it intellectually. And I'll be surprised if they truly pursue it is most likely I'll come back a year later, and they'll want to be the best at something else. That sounds a little cynical. I'm not cynical. I just I've done enough coaching over time, that people who are really motivated are often the ones that for them, there's some emotional cost of failure, so they aren't going to quit. They're the tortoise, not the hare. They are absolutely committed to the long process. Alright, so with that caveat, we've established that being world-class really matters. It's not just about money, status, or positive. It's also about some sort of deep-seated, fulfillment of purpose. Like there's purpose connected to it. I usually go to benchmarking and trending. So, let's name the field for my name like an area that we're going to explore it being number one. 

 

James Laughlin 20:26 

Let's say golf. 

 

Jay Papasan 20:30 

Golf, okay. First, I would ask, let's benchmark and trend currently today, who would most people consider being the number one player in the world? 

 

James Laughlin 20:37 

I would always say Rory McIlroy, but I'm biased. 

 

Jay Papasan 20:41 

Yeah, I don't know enough about golf to know, like, I play four times a year, I used to always play with my dad, he was a huge golfer. And that's just like when I think about when I watch golf, I watched it so I could talk to my dad about it later. Well, I like to play it, but I don't know enough about it. So, we'll go with Rory. Everybody who really loves golf is rolling their eyes at us. But probably we would then say what are the four or five core things that have helped Rory become number one? I want to break that down in a little bit in detail. It's not luck. It doesn't happen that he just went on a hot streak. You know, maybe it's a short game, maybe it's his long game. Maybe he's got the best caddy in the world. Maybe he's got the best coach in the world, right? There are all these elements to elite performance. Maybe it's preparation and how he trains probably a little bit of all of those things if we're being honest. But I want to figure out if Rory represents the benchmark. That is the current number one. Here's the reality, by the time we get to where Rory is today, if that's even attainable to us, the benchmark is going to be well beyond that. So, the next question we asked is, if that's the benchmark, who are the people who appear to be on a projected trajectory, to compete with him, and maybe surpass him in the trend? If we were in business, we were like, like, who are the up and comers in this space? Who are the hot bright ones? So, of all of the million directions? It could go, right? VHS, or Betamax? Which one appears to be the one that's going to be the victor? What's funny is Betamax was supposed to be the victor, but VHS right? That video format just had higher adoption, even though it was the lower quality? So, you look up and go, what did people ultimately want, and you want to mix the benchmark, and you want to be aiming way out ahead towards where we think the trend is going. And then we have a process for backing down that goal. But I think it's a two-step, if you just look at his number one today, by the time you get there, they're way beyond that mark. So, you have to go, usually, three to five years out in the future, for you to have a chance to close the gap and get ahead of its kind of we could go farther and farther, But I love asking that question. Because it really is about what's our potential as a company? What's my potential as a leader? Those are things that excite me and get me excited. 

 

James Laughlin 23:08 

Well, me too. And if you were to think about getting that potential, it's for like three to five years ahead of the benchmark, and then reverse engineering it back to today. Do you have a simple process to reverse engineer back in okay, here's our starting point? Here's our first micro goal. 

 

Jay Papasan 23:24 

Yeah, I mean, we wrote about it very briefly in the book, we call it goal setting to the now. And I can remember when we were articulating it, I just watched a coaching session with Gary. And we'd spent about an hour with another entrepreneur who was in a growth stage for a very big business that we had invested in and was asking Gary's advice, and Gary asked a series of questions. And then it's like, was that five minutes left on the clock or whatever? He just says, you know, James, this is what you need to do. And he just said that, that that done. And it was so clear, and it was like, it felt like a leap. And I just, I came back and I said, how did you do that? Like, all of this happened in your head. Whereas a normal human being that didn't have his repetitions would need a lot of steps. And basically, he walked through this idea of what I've already told you to guess. But you go way out, say this is where I want to be. Based on where I want to be in five years, what would I have to accomplish this year? Now, instead of saying, based on where I want to be in five years, you want to keep pulling it closer. It's funny how you did your hands. You want to say based on whatever I do in one year, what do I have to do this month, based on what I want to do this month what I do this week, based on what I want to do this week, what I do today, based on what I do today, what I do right now, and there's this weird narrowing that happens. And all I can say is where would I have to be in five years to feel like I was truly on track to be world-class at golf, right? That one I'd be that question going back to Rory, there's a little bit of crystal ball out there. But every time you move back, you get much more specific. The problem people have, right, so we've narrowed it down to a course and we will course-correct as we go. Most people look up and say I want to be number one in the world. And then they see the infinite number of things they could choose to do. Well, I should go spend 10 hours on the driving range, and I should right get the right shoes and the right equipment, there's a long list, you can't do that you're spread too thin. But when you work backward, it's a weird phenomenon backward planning, the military uses it, we call it goal setting to the now, it really narrows your focus and allows you to have a longer lead time on things that you can absolutely impact. You make progress, and then you look up and go, well, based on my progress, I kind of feel like my next one-year goal based on where I want to be in five years, gets more and more accurate. I don't know how else to describe it. But we call it goal setting to the now. But it's a process for beginning with the end in mind. That gets you much clearer about how to behave this week. 

 

James Laughlin 26:12 

Really, really powerful. It takes me back to kind of when I was a kid and I was a drummer. And I knew that on the calendar each year, there was a world solo drumming championship, but it was a certain debt every year. And it was so easy for me even as a 10–11-year-old to work back month by month be okay, by this month, I've got to be doing this by this month, the performance has got to be polished this month. So, I find that reverse engineering as a kid was even just really helpful. But seeing that unfold with a business and a corporation a team. It's really powerful stuff. 

 

Jay Papasan 26:43 

I love that you've got music in your background. So, I remember I was at a seminar right after the book came out. And I just asked for someone to give me a big goal, like a big life goal for them, and the audience and a woman came up and said she's always loved singing. And her dream was to, you know, have been the main act in a nightclub for jazz. And I had to kind of break that down for me. I said, well, what does that actually mean? So, we know what the goal is. And she says, usually, it's a set of about 25 songs with a break in the middle. And in order to command you know, the main act, I'd have to really master some amazing songs like I would have to be really good at all of them. I was like, great. Okay, now that we have that, what's nice about it is she said 25, I didn't coke surgeon at that, or whatever. But I said, you know if and based on that in five years, if, in five years, you've mastered 25 jazz standards that you love. Well, what do you think you would have to do in one year to feel like you're absolutely on track for that? Easy, right? It's like, well, maybe I've mastered five. Well, great. Well, if you have to master five jazz standards by the end of this year, what would you have to have absolutely accomplished by the end of this month to feel like you're on track for that? Well, I would have had to select all five and probably be practicing one. Awesome, great, go back to this week. And like, you got to have well, what do you need to be doing right now? It's like, well, I need to get to the music library. And I was like, great. Like at least you have a straight path. Well, what we might find out is it'll take her longer than 12 months to master five songs. Alright, maybe that's a five-year journey for that's that that's what you'll discover. But that narrowing process, it's kind of amazing how often it works that way. 

 

James Laughlin 28:30 

How much clarity does that provide for someone, it's right down to the next step, the most important next thing or next step? Like the one thing, right?  

 

Jay Papasan 28:39 

Yeah, clarity is probably the number one output from our book, when people really try to live it. Are they clear about ultimately, like for their life, what direction they should be headed? That's more of the purpose of the conversation. And based on that, you know, what they should be doing each year? And I just think that clarity yields so much. I mean, I said it earlier, when people understand what they've said yes to the no's, which is the biggest stumbling block towards deck achievement is failure to say, No, the noes become easy. I mean, I steal this from John Maxwell, the author, he said once, you know, I knew that when I said I do to my wife, that was a commitment that was not casual. I knew that by saying yes to her. I was saying no to everyone else. Brilliant. That kind of commitment is what we're talking about, right? I mean, I'm married to this goal. 

 

James Laughlin 29:31 

Well, I remember chatting, maybe three or four months ago with Patrick Mosher, and he said James, do you know what decide means? Do you know where decide comes from? I was like no. Yeah, to cut off all other options and the word cide homicide, genocide, decide is what it means to kill off all other options and so you've got nothing else but that one thing. 

 

 

 

Jay Papasan 29:55 

It comes from a see this then I thought it also I didn't realize it had decide in it. But I've always known that it had the same Latin roots as the same word as scissors. Yes. And a lot of people, it lines up with focus, when I studied focus how your brain focuses, we all want to think as a spotlight, right? But really, when you focus on something, it's making everything else go away. And that word decide isn't so much to choose as it is to cut away, or kill away, which is a little bit stronger. Everything else. That's cool. 

 

James Laughlin 30:30 

Another thing you mentioned a moment ago, was about Gary, essentially coaching this individual said, look, here are your next three steps. So, for you personally, when you've been challenged to figure out your purpose, or your intent, or your one thing, have you ever had great mentors or coaches to help you with that? 

 

Jay Papasan 30:50 

Yes, I mean, they're kind of behind me in this picture, I think the first place I always look because I'm a book nerd, I've been in, like one of my first jobs was in a bookstore, I can access some of the greatest minds who's ever thought about this in history if I'm just willing to go the library, and check out a few books. So, there's that. And then I've also had the benefit of most of my professional life, at least for the last 15 years, I've always had a coach who could work directly with me, and the coaching that I like is not a consultant that tells you what to do. But it's someone who just asks powerful questions so that I can discover my own answers. And it became really clear that I had to go on this discovery path of figuring out why am I here. And for me, my first mission statement was around being the best husband and father I could be. And I worked with a coach on that. His name was Glen Neely. And I can remember him just saying, Jay, what are the decisions that have led to the most regret in your life? What are the ones that have led to the most fulfillment? When you think about things that you just refuse to fail at. What's at the top of your list, and we saw a pattern, that when I was at living in such a way, as would earn the continual respect of my wife, it had a really big emotional impact on me negative. So, it was a very big motivator for me, was to continue to be someone who would aspire to love and respect. You shouldn't have to; I think respect and love go together in all the research I've done. And then my kids are about integrity. You know, if I tell my kids to brush their teeth, and do this and do that like I'm not in integrity if I'm not living that as well. And I realized that that's just for me, I don't mean it's for you, James, or for someone else. But I realized that when I could connect my goals, to those really core things, I just didn't have much quiet in me, I would really work really and strive hard to find ways to make those things happen. The good news is, I discovered a really core deep-seated, you know, pillar of my motivation. The bad news was, is there a lot of stuff that people told me I should want, but I couldn't connect to that. And therefore, I immediately started going well, I guess it doesn't matter to me. Wow, you realized that some of those like, oh, I thought I was going to do that. So, I guess I'm kind of screwed now. Because I'm not really like that was probably just aspirational. There's no cost for me if I don't succeed at that, but maybe someday in the future, it'll get connected. It's just not now that's again, I always come back to purpose, meaning core values, however, you define it. That's your compass, that really helps you decide what to say yes, to and what to say no to. 

 

 

 

James Laughlin 33:47 

That's incredible. And honestly, if you don't mind me saying, it doesn't surprise me that you've engaged with a coach at some stage in your journey. Nearly every single person I've spoken to who's a game-changer, a high performer, they've always worked with a coach or a mentor, someone that's helped them. So that's, that's incredible to hear. 

 

Jay Papasan 34:03 

Well, the book ends for me and all of us you know, we've done multiple books and all of them the core thing is, instead of just imagining what I or Gary and we used to have a writing partner named Dave Jenks, and Dave was like, literally like his childhood was like a rocket scientist, like the most brilliant guy I've ever been around with. Gary is brilliant, strategically, I think I'm not dumb. But like, it still was not like what was our ideas, we always thought like, who are the very best people that have done this before us that we can go interview and learn from and what we saw continually whether it was in investors, whether it was in real estate, sales, and business development, or in this book, just achievement in any field. It always started with a mindset, just an unparalleled mindset at the beginning to believe things were possible to not having overwhelming limiting beliefs. And on the other bookend, they had some form of accountability. They had someone that was checking in with them. To make sure that they were living up to what they said that they were going to do, not in a punishment kind of way, I find that people aren't held accountable. They choose to be accountable to a goal and to a person. And that relationship is really powerful. It was so powerful. I was like, Is this just so obvious? We don't need to put it in the book. Right now, most people miss it. But it is incredibly common among top achievers, 

 

James Laughlin 35:24 

Absolutely. And the book, my partner just read the one thing probably in the last six months, and she looked at me and she said, James, this book that you do these things, these are things I thought you just did naturally. I said no, like, a lot of what you're seeing me do comes from the book, just well, it all seems so simple. Yeah, yeah, he's right. And works. But this seems so simple. Like, I looked at this book and thought this is going to be really in-depth and intricate. And she says, it does go deep, but it stays really simple. And that's the great thing about the one thing. So, for those people who want to get more proactive with planning, who want to set their life up with a bit more clarity and find their one thing, how can they work with you, Jay? 

 

Jay Papasan 36:09 

Alright, can I address this simply? Go back to your partner? Yeah, of course. I promise to pick up the thread, I'll cross my fingers that usually works for me. Why did I cross my fingers? Again, it's on the subtitle, the subtitle to the original version is the surprisingly simple truth behind extraordinary results. And the two keywords are simple and extraordinary. For those four and a half years, we were writing and researching trying to model extraordinary, like we were looking at the top 1% in industries, sometimes the top 1% of 1%, and really broad industries to look for, what are the handful of traits that these people have in common. And then on the other side is simple. And this I credit, Gary, but I've definitely experienced it, that first marathon that I told you about at the beginning of the interview, I ran the entire marathon by just getting like a three by five index card from Runner's World, it was literally a tear-out and Runner's World that had your daily running menu, one mile, one and a quarter miles one and a half miles, one mile, two miles, the next week, everything goes up by like a quarter-mile. And it was just like, it was literally a three-by-five index card. That was all it took for me to run a marathon, I did have to go to a good shoe store at one point because I'm kind of the big guy and I was getting shoe splints. But for the most part, it was very simple. And that made an impression on me. If I'm going to stick to something for a long time, complicated, really difficult. For things that are made, it's challenging enough when you're tired after a long day of work for me, I had to haul up to the reservoir in New York City to run around that center track because I couldn't run on the streets. So, I had to brave running at night, and a park in New York City. And even if the training was okay, there was just all the other baggage Yeah, but it had to be simple. And that was what Gary articulated later. He goes, what I found in all of my management and leadership is while complicated, can feel kind of very attractive and sophisticated like, oh, look, listen to what that consultant just said. Nobody can live in complicated for very long. But simple, which is so often underestimated, is truly elegant. And that is the thing that people can show up and do every single day. So, what your partner said I take as the ultimate compliment. It's also why some people dismiss the book. This is too simple. It can't be true. But it's actually the simple that allows people to do the little things day in and day out. That adds up to so much more over time than most people could imagine. Alright, so do we want to build on that? And my fingers are still crossed. Talk about how we work together on planning. I can go there to where do you want to go? You're the host. 

 

James Laughlin 38:56 

Yeah, no, I really like- Excuse me, I'm just at the end of COVID. So, my apologies for clearing my throat.  

 

Jay Papasan 

I'm so sorry. That's okay.  

 

James Laughlin 

No, all part of the fun. So, what I love about that is simple is not necessarily easy. And I think for the person listening right now, please don't confuse the two simples does not mean easy. Often simple can be difficult to achieve because it requires discipline and consistency. So, when you get the book and if you haven't got the book, guys, please get the book right now you're on your phone listening to this right now I bet. So go to Amazon or go wherever you need to get that book ordered. Go to your local bookstore and support it. But let's make sure you get a copy of the book if you haven't, it's a powerful book. Most of the great leaders that I haven't read over the last few years have read this book have noted comments about this book. So, it's really incredible. And how many sales, 3 million sales? 

 

Jay Papasan 39:47 

As of today, I think 2.7 million. 

 

James Laughlin 39:50 

Incredible! And how many languages? 

 

Jay Papasan 

 

 

 

 

James Laughlin 

It's amazing. 

 

Jay Papasan 39:56 

It's crazy. We just actually donated it. Thank you, Ryan Holliday, who inspired this, we donated all of our royalties from our Ukrainian Russian editions to help people in Ukraine. That's like, I love that he started that movement. But I went to our rights person. And I said, spread this to all your authors, but like what percentage of authors have foreign rights in Ukraine and Russia, to begin with? It's not many. So, I feel privileged. 

 

James Laughlin 40:22 

Well done. That's amazing. Thank you for doing that. 

 

Jay Papasan 40:25 

Thanks. Do you want to go with this simple- I love what you just said. Simple does not mean easy. And I think that's you just said what I said much more simply. So, God bless you. 

 

James Laughlin 40:36 

Thank you, hey, if somebody wants to work with you, you know, I have heard of this amazing event that you run with your wife every year. So, can you please let me let the listener know a little bit more about that? 

 

Jay Papasan 40:46 

Sure. It's a little over 15 years ago, my wife came to me, and we had two kids 16 months apart. I was driving at work; she had just made the adjustment to stay home and be a mom after our second child. And she just didn't feel like we were on the same page. Two kids under two, one of whom is colicky, just put a lot of stress on the relationship. So, she said, I want to get an overnight babysitter and go away for the weekend and just get on the same page. And I'll be honest with you, it scared me to death. I thought, okay, I'm failing at the marriage. I'm going to hear all about it. It's like the inevitable, we have something to talk about when you get home. And it just fills me with dread, right. But it ended up being wonderful. She just downloaded a whole bunch of questions from the internet. And we just asked like, how do we feel about our finances? What about our kids and, and we just got space to have those conversations over the years, and what the one thing we've built on that process and built on that process, people started hearing about it and like at one point, we had our word doc, and we would just send them a word doc, here's our outline, here are our questions. And then it started spreading. I heard about this thing from so and so then we're in the age of Google Sheets, and it became a Google sheet. And eventually, about five years ago, when we started the company around the one thing, we started hosting it. And so, if people just, I believe if you Google couples goal-setting retreat, we are number one. And there is a free guide to hosting your own kick-ass guide to hosting a couple of goal-setting retreats, where it's now about 10 pages that will walk you through how to set up a getaway, why you want to do it away from home, especially if you have kids or pets because what you don't need to be doing that weekend is doing the laundry or mowing the grass, you need to be focused on your future and getting on the same page with someone who you love. And then there's a series of exercises to set financial goals and kind of get on the same page. We've got that and we also facilitate one that's live and streaming, depending on where you are in the world that may or may not be comfortable. But if they just go to that link, they should be able to find all of those resources. And I usually tell people to start with the free one doesn't matter what time of year it is, block some time, especially if one of you is a leader or an entrepreneur. Those people tend to be goal setters, they're looking way out. They have really strong reasons for going where they're going. And I liken that, to getting you to drive a sports car, right along the coastal highway with all the bends and you're whipping a downshifting through the turns, it's a lot of fun. For the spouse, or the partner with that person. They don't know the destination, they don't have the why they're blindfolded in the backseat, just getting pinballing around the car. It's a very different experience. And all I've heard from a couple after couple, just giving both parties space, hey, this is where I want to go. And this is where you want to go. Most people are afraid that they'll find out the divergent. Well, guess what any relationship over time is going to diverge. If you talk about it, and you care about each other, then you have this opportunity to bridge those gaps, right? There are times when I've had to be more of a supporting partner in our relationship, because of what my wife was striving to do. She's also an entrepreneur, there have been times when she's had to be on the other side where she's had to delay some of her goals to make mine happen. But it's the balance of those two in the way we get to talk about it that matters. So, all I can tell people is if you value your relationship, invest just one weekend a year, truly into getting on the same page. It'll add so many years and so much happiness to your relationship. I just, thank my wife for scaring the poo out of me back years ago. And it just really changed our marriage. It changed our trajectory measurably. 

 

James Laughlin 44:54 

I'll say that Caroline and I will join your retreat this year. It sounds phenomenal. We'll do it digitally from New Zealand and be a part of it. So, it sounds great. 

 

Jay Papasan 45:01 

I can't wait to see you there. That would be fabulous.  

 

James Laughlin 45:05 

Be a ton of fun. Now I want to be respectful of your time. So, the one last question that I always like to ask everyone is there. So, you're at the end of your life and one of your children says, Dad, how do I lead my life with Purpose? How would you answer them? 

 

Jay Papasan 45:31 

I'd probably tell them they already are. And they have to tap into where and why they're going where they're going. There's a metaphor that I picked up from the happiness hypothesis by Jonathan Hite. And he talks about the rider and the elephant. And he asks the reader to imagine a small boy riding an elephant in the jungle, right? So, you can picture it. And it goes, we, we all imagine that the writer is in charge of our lives. Right? The human with a little bamboo stick directs. But the reality is, there's nothing that 60-pound kid could ever do to truly make the elephant go with the elephant that didn't want to go, the elephant weighs three or four times. And the boys riding on the elephant, if the elephant decides it's time to go west, it's gone west. So, the only reason the elephant goes where the rider wants it to is that it agrees. And he said, think of the rider, like your head, and the elephant is your heart. And understand that wherever you've been going. You thought the rider was in charge. But it's always been the elephant. So, you've got to tap into why is the elephant has been going there? And where is it actually going? And it's often not what the writer thinks. And that story gave me great comfort, James, because at that point, even though we're writing this book, I realized, like, I was really good at goal setting, and I can even set long term five- and 10-year goals. But I wasn't attaching purpose to them, because it scared the crap out of me. And that told me, Oh, wait, I don't have to find an answer. I'm already living the answer. The clues are all around me. I just have to talk to the people that I love. And that loves me and that know me best and say, what do you think motivates me? What do you think, ultimately, is where I'm heading? And by piecing those together, I like to play detective, my first hero, the Sherlock Holmes, you start to see a pattern. And maybe a coach can help you with that. But I would tell them, don't worry you already are. That part of your job is to look for those breadcrumbs and try to trace the path of that elephant. And the moment you realize where it's going is the best day of your life. 

 

James Laughlin 47:57 

Thank you for sharing that. That was beautiful. Amazing. So, for the listener that's listening to that, please think about that. And think about what you want to impart to your kids, your family, your loved ones, your friends, your community, and your business. And just want to say a heartfelt thank you for taking the time to connect. 

 

Jay Papasan 48:15 

Thank you for having me. I know you had to get up at the break of dawn on the other side of the world to have this conversation but you brought it you clearly know the book; I appreciate your preparedness for your audience. You really prepared this and it was really fun to talk with you about one of my favorite topics, the book that has changed my life, and I hope will change others. Thank you, Jay. Thank you 

 

James Laughlin 48:55 

Thanks for tuning in today and investing in your own personal leadership. Please hit that subscribe button. And I'd love it if you'd leave me a rating and review. I've got some amazing guests lined up for you in the coming weeks. And leaders. It's that time to get out there and lead your life on purpose.